Saturday, December 20, 2014
(Videos re: Historical origins of our modern traditions)
Here, I supply a few examples of many sources extolling the truths of this ‘season of Satan’, and the many symbols, practices, and meanings underlying the ‘christmas holiday’. It is SO OBVIOUS after a perusal of these truthful videos that anyone with eyes to see, and ears to hear can and should understand that the celebration is abomination. We have been tricked into the snare—but we can and should reverse the process and STOP THE (indirect) SATANIC WORSHIP! Don’t continue to honor the prince of this world, and his systems of worship—it is so obvious how we were deceived—resistance is so STUPID. Stop it…just stop. It’s not that hard to do what is right in God’s eyes.
**Also, please refer to my own playlist on 'Xmas' ala YouTube at:
Why Christians Shouldn't Celebrate Christmas [19:56]
Pastor Wagner tells how the winter solstice is the real reason why confused people celebrate at this time of the year, and how true ‘Christians’ should not participate in these deceptions… Explains why it is not good to adopt the heathen ways, as the RCC did…see-Deut 12:22 & Jer. 10:2-4++ (√ good biblical supports and info! .)
True History of Christmas/Saturnalia! Jesus Is NOT the Reason for This Season! Xmas Deception [39:27]
“The beginning is from "Puritan Pictures Church III", and the Main/History portion is from "Christmas - What Your Pastor Doesn't Want You to Know - Parts 1-3). Brian Moonan also just produced the first video of a series about the truth behind Christmas that was amazing.. check it out if you get a chance! Please share this with people who want to know the truth!” Good historical root of Babylonian sun-god worship practices we continue on, apparently oblivious…
(√ good video! good info!) People who worshipped God in ‘their way’ were cut off from deliverance out of Egypt and 3000 killed by God at Mt. Sinai…think you are OK?
The Real Christmas Story - Historians reveals the pagan origins of Christmas [34:28]
Early pagan rituals, celebrations, and evolution of icons & traditions into a commercial, and mainly secular, ‘holiday’ including yule, ‘St. Nick’ or santa, 12 days of xmas, etc.
The Quick Truth about Christmas and Easter [8:44]
Early efforts of Roman rulers’ combining pagan traditions, of Babylonian origin, with ’Christian’ themes, in order to secure control and maintain rule. Also discusses feasts of the Bible, and how Jesus (Yeshua) kept them diligently, as we should. However, these, and the Sabbath, were outlawed by Roman rulers—traditions we DO adhere to…
The Truth about Easter: The Churches Have Lied To You [5:18]
Symbols & traditions of the fertility festival of pagan roots, and how ‘Easter’ was celebrated before Christ was crucified, by Herod and others, as mentioned in the Bible…
Truth Or Tradition -Should Christians Celebrate Christmas And Easter? [1:24:50]
Jim Staley’s Passion for Truth Ministries accounting of the origins of various ‘holidays’, including ‘xmas’, ‘easter’, etc. (This is really good, in-depth TRUTH√)
History, truth, and the Biblical perspective on the deceptions perpetrated upon us, unwittingly... This is one of the better vehicles for gaining truth and understanding the deceptions of our ‘festivals’ or ‘holidays’ which typically honor pagan or satanic rites and traditional practices.
Shocking But True- "Is Christmas Christian?" [29:23]
From a group at Crusade TV—Reveals so-called holiday ‘christmas’ and its many icons has its roots in pagan traditions & observances (eg., Nimrod-Babylon-sun god worship), and Catholic mandates. Addresses the “ …well, that’s not what *I* am doing” deception or excuse, and the curse of well-meaning, but wrong, practices, which are outside of God’s wishes. [ IMO: This is pretty good, and includes biblical referents√ …some good perspectives which are lacking elsewhere…]
Christmas - The Truth Your Pastor Wont Tell You About Christmas [9:55]
Fairly concise and accurate historical & ‘religious’ perspective warning of the pagan practices, with biblical referents, and relays meaning of some key symbols/icons. (√ good.)
Christmas Satanic Pagan Illuminati Holiday EXPOSED !!! Introduction [52:05]
[√ good] synopsis of many icons, symbols, etc associated with xmas ‘holidays’ . Contains clips from Doc Marquis’ works (former satanist), exposing the pagan & occult aspects of our traditions—going back to Babylon. These are traditions of Man, taken from Satan and promulgated by TPTB…explains a LOT of details re: the colors, sights, sounds, and schemas involved in the 'holiday'..you might be shocked!
Christmas: Illuminati Exposed [27:58]
Another good exposé of the holiday, and the many traditions, and how pagan things are turned into ‘christian’ things, via deceptive satanistic devices. Devious substitutions and replacements for the various sun-god variants, and queen of heaven are performed to ‘hide’ what we really are worshipping… Open your eyes and see the Truth as it is plain as day!
Origins of Christmas History Channel Documentary - YouTube [44:40]
[basically] A state-sponsored review of the pagan origins of ‘christmas’, which inherently portrays ‘Christians’ and religion (in general) as simply spinoffs of the pagan traditions preceding. Some value as an historical documentary, and more recent revisions of the traditions, including the institution of Police forces in response to xmas ruckuses. Also the books, movies, artwork, and stories (ie., propaganda) which helped to popularize & commercialize this ‘holiday’, and secularize it’s characters (like ‘santa’). Weak in connecting Babylonian etiological beginnings and true meanings of pagan icons & symbols..mediocre rating here :(
Friday, November 7, 2014
*From My YT channel: Insightful Ramblings of an Awakened
Individual--WATCH, SHARE, AND/OR COMMENT!
Tuesday, October 28, 2014
'Zeitgeist Movement' uses deceptions and false attributions in their call to embrace Mythology and Astrology, rather than God...
The underlying precepts and bases for the Zeitgeisters' debunking 'Christianity', the Bible, and God, in general, is a misguided misattribution of many things as being part of a Biblical perspective which are not based upon true teachings or principles of the Bible. That is, they make their case against traditions of Man, and, especially, the facets of the Roman Catholic Church tenets and holidays, which are extra-Biblical, and not--NOT of God OR the Bible. In fact, it assumes that the traditions of Man and such are biblical, when in fact, they are not; the foregoing iterates my comments and denial of the deceptive words and practices promoted by the Zeitgeisters, and their ilk. Regardless of their intent, they are spreading LIES & deceptions meant to turn the unknowing away from God by appealing to 'rational' reasoning. Unfortunately, they don't base their premises upon reality--only that perceived as reality based upon false teachings of and from the RCC and associated control structures...
The Video in Question:
The Video in Question:
Wednesday, October 15, 2014
Yup. It's all a LIE; 'they' have us all fearing our natural bodily processes and the foundations of a healthy body, by trying to say that arguably the MOST necessary building block of global functioning is somehow "BAD". What a crock. Really, 'they' just want to decrease your health and wellness, in general, by decreasing this integral component of your body, so 'they' can treat you for your further 'dis-ease' which results. Yes, they make money with their statin drugs to decrease this much-needed foundational building block of health and wellness. Yes.--health and wellness REQUIRE cholesterol. LOOK IT UP...
iHealthTube.com - You Need Cholesterol, Not Dangerous Statin Drugs!
iHealthTube.com - You Need Cholesterol, Not Dangerous Statin Drugs!
Wednesday, September 10, 2014
Falling Away (part 6): Debunking the ‘Pre-Trib’ Rapture
[NOTE: figures & pics didn't 'survive' the past-up here--see the actual video at:
My YT Video]
My YT Video]
There is quite a lot of confusion and controversy surrounding the actual timing of the so-called ‘rapture’ event, as it refers to end-time prophecy. By ‘rapture’, I am referring to the gathering of God’s elect—His people, or the Church—at the second coming of our Lord. Although there are several ‘camps’, or perspectives, that one may believe in [mainly, pre-, mid- & post-tribulation], or adhere to, my goal is not to delve into the exact timelines, or to become caught up in the minutia of details; rather to state the basics and to avoid the arguments, while citing verses illustrative of the general sequence of events to come.
I have published several videos in my ‘Falling Away’ series which address several false doctrines promulgated by the powers of darkness [TPTB], through and by science, and also via televangelists and other false ‘religious’ prophets, unto the Christian community, as a whole. Although the ‘Pre-trib’ rapture (Pre-TR) deception is only one of many common deceptions, it may be especially dangerous, as I have documented in my Falling Away: (part 5) The Dangers of the 'Pre-trib' Rapture Doctrine video. In that video, I promised to be coming out with a concise debunking of the false teaching that has infected much of the Christian population. I will not stand here as an accuser, or name names, or condemn anyone in particular. That is neither my function, nor my purpose. My goal is fairly simple; to diminish or clear up the controversial PTR issue as succinctly as possible, without getting caught up in the mire of all the different arguments from any side.
I often base my beliefs on a general knowledge of the bible, as revealed through scripture, and global meanings—the big picture. However, for more serious study and in discerning truth about certain controversies, it is often necessary to go line by line, and precept upon precept—NOT simply cherry-picking verses which can be twisted or manipulated to support beliefs. Understanding parables, symbolism, allegory, and the many dualities illustrated within the Bible also aids in discernment. But the scripture interprets itself, upon deeper look, and so no man should go by their personal interpretations or beliefs. We are much too biased and fallible to rely on such, and this is often the source of the various false doctrines popularized in these end times. Beware the false pride and the biases we tend to hold, with regard to our beliefs
( see several videos on beliefs, and the difficulties associated with changing them, etc., as well as how false doctrines and deceptions are promulgated via establishing lies as truths, via propaganda, repetition, etc. at:
Frankly, I have not been brainwashed throughout my life with this Pre-TR doctrine, so perhaps it is/was easier for me to arrive at a rational or more objective conclusion without such pre-bias. Unfortunately, many were force-fed this Pre-TR doctrine since childhood, or for many years, resulting in an embedded bias and the resultant resistance (see videos) to even examine contrary information. So, if the viewer is counted among those who do have a pre-existing bias, I would ask that you pray for discernment and open your heart and mind to the will of God and to His teachings. This is not about me and my beliefs vs you and your beliefs; it’s about the truth vs deception. I pray that we all come to know God’s truth instead of reliance upon Man’s tradition, or our own beliefs.
The Parable of the Ten Virgins
So, let us begin with my understanding of the tribulation period, and the so-called ‘rapture’, as it is revealed in scriptures and via parable, etc. One particularly relevant parable is that of the ten virgins, and their oil supply; Some did not have enough ‘oil’ to make it through the period, and so they were ultimately left behind, after the door was shut up.
__________ from Bible Gateway: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25&
Matthew 25 New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Ten Virgins
25 At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them.
4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps.
5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’
7 “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’
9 “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’
12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’
13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
Note that all were virgins, signifying the untarnished nature of a woman, which is consistently used to represent a church—so, these virgins symbolize Christians, or people who at least profess to be part of the Church, in general. Yet, there were two distinct groups within the population of these virgins—the wise, and the foolish. Only the wise had the additional ‘oil’ to keep their flames lighting the way through the (upcoming) darkness. Understanding what the ‘oil’ is and that a measure of it was available to all, given the proper preparation, is a key concept here. Was it knowledge of the Gospel, God’s truth, and His Law, or perhaps diligence, or ? Or is it the Holy Spirit, only gifted to the true believers, upon their salvation (but not to all those who simply cry “Lord, Lord”), through the knowledge of the Gospel? This is the beauty of the parable; there can be many interpretations which might be adapted to many different circumstances, as a guide in our daily lives. However, with specific regard to the end-times, and the rapture, the meanings are fairly easy to interpret, given the precepts used throughout the many verses of the Bible…
In general, throughout the Bible, ‘oil’ is used as a metaphor of, or allegory for, the Holy Spirit, which aids and comforts one in times of darkness, and guides our hearts and minds; a source of light, and truth, or the power which enables the lamps to shine through the darkness, or a time of troubles, or tribulation. This may be analogous to the spiritual darkness that will be prevalent at the time of the second coming of our Lord—the Day of the Lord. Using this global analogy, what need would one have of a lamp, were He to come during a time of light (or not during darkness, or, a period of tribulation)? Indeed, just prior to that Day, at the opening of the sixth seal, there will also be a literal darkness in the world, as a sign of the coming of our Lord.; “…Joel chapter 2, which is a description of the Day of The Lord, confirms the 6th Seal as the time the ends times commence: “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.” (Joel 2:31). The signs of the moon turning to blood and the sun turning black only occur together at one point in the entire Bible – the 6th Seal” (From The Red Moon Rapture – The Biblical Timing of The Rapture ( from: January 27, 2013 By Beginning and End http://beginningandend.com/the-red-moon-rapture-the-biblical-timing-of-the-rapture/ ).
An interesting and informative video called “The Ten Virgins - 119 Ministries” (on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC2z1Vh8JT4 ) sets out to interpret this parable, and makes a cogent argument for their definitions and interpretations: The key words and definitions they emphasize were:
1) Wise: Those who are obedient
2) Foolish: “” “” disobedient
3) Lamp: The commandment[s]
4) Light: The law of God
5) Oil: The desire to obey the law of God through pressing, or tribulation (or, the desire to obey is enabled via the Holy Spirit)
Another interpretation is given in *Bible verses about Oil as Symbol(From Forerunner Commentary)
Oil is a widely understood symbol of the Holy Spirit and thus does not require a detailed explanation, but one scripture will suffice to link the Holy Spirit and oil directly:
The overall interpretations of relevant definitions was stated as the following:
Because of its abundance of well-known symbols, the Parable of the Ten Virgins is perhaps the easiest to understand in a prophetic light. The Bridegroom, of course, is Christ. Virgins are often symbols of churches or individual Christians, most likely the latter in this case. Lamps are vessels that contain oil, a common symbol of God's Spirit, thus they represent our minds, which, when filled with the Holy Spirit, provide illumination for the path to the Kingdom of God (I Corinthians 2:10-16). The wedding refers to the marriage of the Lamb to the church (Revelation 19:7).*
As stated, there are many possible interpretations and analogies possible. However, as we relate their interpretation of the ‘oil’, as the desire to obey the law[s] of God, one could easily replace such with the Holy Spirit, in that the Holy Spirit guides our hearts and minds, and helps one to discern the truth, and therefore helps one to be aware of, and obedient to, the Law. For it is said “Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.” – Proverbs 23:23. Another related passage suggested that from Jesus we “…buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. (Rev 3). Thus, the treasure of heaven (the gold, tried in fire) results through trial; yet even more support for the rejection of pre-tribbers’ claims that we need not undergo trials, or tribulation. The aforementioned interpretation of ‘oil’ as the desire to obey, through pressing, or tribulation, also tends to support this concept. That is, one physically derives the oil through beating and pressing of the olive (the source of the lamp oil in question). Incidentally, Jesus (Yeshua) spent his final night at the Mount of Olives…a coincidence?
What appears missing from all the explanations that I personally witnessed was the fact that the foolish virgins were not present upon the arrival of the bridegroom (Yeshua); they had gone out to purchase oil for their lamps. The key is that they were unprepared, and because of this, they were not present at the appointed time.; they had insufficient ‘oil’ for their lamps, and they were later rejected by the Lord at his coming, who states that He doesn’t know them (paraphrased)[ (compare Revelation 3:7, 20)]. Perhaps their lack of presence indicates that they are indeed, not really in the true Church. Are these the ‘lukewarm Christians’ who go through the motions of being of the Body, but have not prepared, or truly repented, hence, truly do not possess the Holy Spirit? “Equating the foolish virgins with their modern counterparts, the Laodiceans, their faith is perfunctory. Their church membership is routine, merely going through the motions. They have enough faith that they at least show up for church services. They have beliefs and character and motivation—but not enough!”* [see below citation]. However, they looked, or appeared to be, part of the wedding party, as would be chosen by the bride, or the true Church. Therefore, there is something inherently missing from the foolish that may not be readily apparent, neither to the Church nor to themselves; they believed themselves to be worthy of being there—but were not. This is yet another facet of the parable, which seems to escape the notice or application of many interpretations.
Are we wise, or are we foolish? Apparently, a great proportion of those who would be seen as members within the body of the Church, and in the opinion of the foolish themselves, were and are NOT wise; they were deceived into thinking or believing that they were/are worthy—or ’saved’, because they were rejected. Either they were disobedient, and/or they rejected the law, and/or they worshipped not in truth and spirit, by not living by the law. Again, many of those who cry “Lord, Lord” will be surprised to find that they do not number among the chosen, in those end times—those who take the wide path. Those who do not follow the law. Those who mix in, or confuse, the laws of God with the pagan traditions of Man, or who wrongly have denied the law. Those who do not truly repent, and those who allow themselves to be deceived by false prophets and false doctrines, by not testing all things. Those who fall for the ear-tickling doctrines of the false prophets, which allow them to ignore the commandments of our Lord—The list could go on and on. There will be many who think they are the first, yet are the last. Many are deceived, and many deceive themselves…
‘Pre-Tribbers’: Like the Ten Virgins?
Perhaps these self-deceived, or delusional, virgins hold fast to many a false doctrine, which prevents them from having the ‘oil’, or being prepared for the Day of the Lord. They may falsely believe that they are immune to tribulation, or they may be self-righteous fools who somehow believe they are ‘above’ reproach? These views seems to predominate among the population of the so-called ‘Pre-tribbers’, in my view. However, such beliefs are i neither scriptural, nor historical, nor realistic. In exploring these bases, we must develop a type of timeline, from which to gain a general understanding of the Day of the Lord, and the general timing of the so-called ‘rapture’ belief that pre-tribbers hold onto so tightly. A scriptural basis for a correct timeline should help to clear up many misconceptions such ‘pre-tribbers’ might be falsely holding onto.
Before we can discuss the refutation of a ‘pre-trib’ rapture, it might be relevant to understand this position, in general. There are certainly myriad variations, and differing interpretations, as there are for seemingly limitless doctrines and dogma in the church of Man. (One must look to the Bible, in context, in order to gain a true understanding of the Word of God) In general, then, one could say that the ‘pre-tribbers’ believe that they will be ‘raptured’ out of the world before the tribulations foretold of in the prophecies, during the end times. This is to say that they believe that they will be spared any trials or tribulations specifically mentioned to occur in and around the perilous times leading to the arrival of the Day of the Lord, at Jesus’ (Yeshua, or the Messiah) return—they will be raptured up to be with the Lord, before any harm or tribulations occur. Many also believe they will be ‘raptured’ prior to the revelation of the man of perdition, or the ‘antichrist’, which is patently absurd, based upon clearly delineated scriptures. There is also some blockage of their understanding of the very definition of ‘tribulation’, and wrath, or perhaps the inability to discern between Satan’s wrath and the Lord’s wrath. Those misunderstandings will be examined below…
‘Pre-tribbers’ (&/or dispensationalists), generally support the concept of ‘Imminence’; that no particular event, or sequence of events, must occur before the so-called ‘rapture’ event. That is, that it could be at any moment, like a thief in the night. However, this is a patently false doctrine. There are specific events which are laid down in scriptures, which signal when the general season is, as well as specific events.
Refer to the charts below, depicting these events and seals (Charts 1-2), as well as Table 1:
Chart 1. ‘Rapture’/Tribulation Timeline (from the video “The Pre-wrath Rapture - The Rapture Puzzle Solved with Matthew 24” by Chris White, on YouTube at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV2txxxdVEQ)
Now, apparently, they may be both confused, and deceived, as to the timings and the events which are explicitly laid out for us within the Bible’s prophecies, which serve to show the season, or general period, in which the Lord arrives. With the exception of these pre-tribbers, there seems to be a general consensus as to the general timeline of events surrounding the Day of the Lord. In particular, the timeline is illustrated via scriptures revealing the opening of the seven seals, and the events which are associated with each. This is the general timeline of these seven seals and associated occurrences that are to come, in a relatively chronological order:
(note the parallels of both the scriptures from Matthew and Revelation [ see also 1 & 2 Thessalonians] )
A timeline based upon the parallel Bible scriptures states that a 7-year tribulation period begins with a so-called ‘peace’ treaty (agreement) signed by and supported by many nations; ostensibly, this is a Middle-East / Israeli peace agreement. Also implicitly, during the interim, and likely a part of the treaty, one sees the Temple rebuilt in Jerusalem during the next several years, and the Jewish sacrifices will again be performed, because mid-way through the 7-year agreement, the man of perdition will be revealed therein. The first three seals, about 3-31/2 years going into the treaty, are often referred to as the ‘birth pains’. That period ends when at ~3 1/2 yrs (midway), the man of perdition (antichrist) will proclaim himself to be God within the Holy temple—the abomination of desolation event— thereafter, he will end the sacrifices, and begin the killing and persecutions of both Jews and Christians (see also Daniel 11: 31-35), world-wide. At this point, the Bible scriptures suggest those in Judah should run for the hills, without delay (they will be right where the antichrist’s forces will begin the terror). This is the period of the tribulation that is often referred to as the wrath of Satan. He realizes his time is short, so the persecutions go all out. This period is also called the Great Tribulation, for the wrath of Satan will result in many deaths, including those of saints and martyrs (real Christians who will refuse the ‘mark’ of the Beast); this period encompasses the 4th-6th seals. Thereafter, according to the ‘pre-wrath’ view, signs in the heavens—the darkening of the sun, moon, and stars, and the ‘rapture’ occurs—that is, God’s Church ( a multitude of all nations and tongues) is caught up in the clouds to join Jesus (Yeshua), following the resurrection of the dead in Christ—protected from the wrath of God, which will be poured out upon the wicked and the unbelievers in subsequent times. God’s wrath ends the wrath of Satan and his forces on earth, and begins the dreaded day of the Lord, and its many woes; these include the events associated with the blowing of the seven trumpets.
end part 6[a]
Scripturally speaking, then, these passages show several prerequisite events that must come to pass before the ‘rapture’, and the Day of the Lord; there are others as well (see above & chart below):
Chart 2. Events Preceding the Day of the Lord (from the video “The Pre-wrath Rapture - The Rapture Puzzle Solved with Matthew 24” by Chris White, on YouTube at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV2txxxdVEQ)
Thusfar, it has been shown, from scriptures, that a) there will be a time when a wide variety of tribulations will precede the gathering up of the Church—the ‘rapture’; wars, famines, and the persecution of christian martyrs and saints—who will be killed—even beheaded (see graphics below), and b) there is a list of specific events which must precede the Day of the Lord, and hence, the gathering, or ‘rapture’ of the Church.
They also apparently do not understand that Christians have been, historically, and indeed, are currently undergoing persecution and tribulations of all sorts, including torture, crucification, and beheadings. It is as though they have a ‘magical blinder’ to the realities of today, and sheer ignorance of the documented past. In some of my videos, I relate specifics of both [see The Obamanation: USA's Brutal sponsorship of Christian murder, by-proxy [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lacZ2_ne4pU ], and The Falling Away: (pt 4) False Doctrines of Man ( 'pre-trib' rapture, etc) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNMDtuApxGc and Falling Away: (part 5) The Dangers of the 'Pre-trib' Rapture Doctrine at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC5rVVdPihA and more…]. The actual source of the beliefs and/or deceptions, and of this so-called ‘blinder’ is not explicit. It may be a function of their stubborn arrogance, their indoctrination by false prophets and televangelists/ministers of their churches, or perhaps even from the Lord, who states that sometime during the end times he would close some to the truth, because of their beliefs (see below). That is going a bit off subject though…
Must the ‘Elect’ undergo the Tribulation?
Let us examine more scriptures which support the historical and or upcoming tribulations, and that there is Biblical proof that we have not, nor will not, ‘escape’ or avoid them; it is seen as a builder of character, and patience, and the strengthening of our spirits. I, personally, adhere to a rather nebulous, or general, ‘post-trib’ or ‘pre-wrath’ belief, without getting too caught up in the details or specifics. First, I frankly do not claim to have the exhaustive, in-depth knowledge of all the relevant Biblical details, at this point. Second, I don’t really feel like it is that important to know exactly when such-and-such event (vial, bowl, trumpet, etc) will happen; only that it will happen. One of the bases of my general belief in ‘post-trib’ , or ‘pre-wrath’, accounts is based upon a personal, but general conviction that I do not believe that we, as Christians, are somehow immune from trials and tribulations—in fact, I see them as often leading us TO the Lord (often disasters of different natures are a ‘wake up’ call), and that perhaps we are tested via ‘trials by fire’ during our lifetimes as a means to assure God that we are worthy, or perhaps to strengthen our faith.
For example, Abraham was tested by God when he was told to sacrifice his only begotten son, Isaac. Can you imagine the pain and the dread of such an act—the tribulation of that? But, both he and Isaac were adamant in their fidelity to God, and were proven to be righteous servants even up until the act was stopped by God. Note the parallels to God’s sacrificing of his own son for our salvation… Such testing by trials is evident throughout the Bible, and shows Him who are the true and righteous among men. One must understand that being a ‘fair-weather’ Christian is easy, and that this non-testing, non-tribulation doctrine is a ‘tickling of the ears’ by the deceivers, who ensnare the gullible, and the weak of heart and mind, and spirit. It is one of the general truths that one might discern as a function of general knowledge or familiarity with the Bible.
The story of Job is another example. In fact, there are quite a few specificl illustrations of this general principle:
[see/listen to audio at Amazing Facts.org
Pastor Doug: But when you look at the examples in the Bible about how God works, let me just find a few quickly. Did the Lord save Noah from the flood or through the flood?
Caller: Through the flood.
Pastor Doug: He was in the world during the flood wasn't he?
Caller: Right. Yes.
Pastor Doug: Did God save the children of Israel from the Egypt plagues or were they in the world during the plagues?
Caller: Oh they were in it.
Pastor Doug: He protected them but they were there. Did the Lord save Joseph from his trials or did He deliver him through his trials?
Caller: Delivered him through.
Pastor Doug: Were Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego saved from the furnace or through it?
Caller: Through the furnace.
Pastor Doug: Daniel in the lion's den, from it or through it?
Caller: Through it.
Pastor Doug: All right. Christ says in Matthew 24 you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake, but he that endures to the middle? to the beginning? or to the end?
Caller: To the end, yes.
Pastor Doug: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved. Consistently all the way through the Bible, it's telling us that there's going to be a time of trouble. For one thing, if you look in Revelation, you just quoted from Revelation?
Pastor Doug: Look at chapter 18 verse 4. And he says, 'I heard another voice from Heaven saying, 'Come out of her....' God is speaking to His people saying come out of Babylon my people, 'lest you share in her sins and receive of her plagues, for her sins have reached to Heaven.' ' The seven last plagues that fall in chapters 15 and 16 are falling on Babylon and her daughters. If God's people are in Babylon, they are destroyed by the plagues. They are to come out of Babylon, but they're still in the world. But He protects them, the same way He protected Israel in the Old Testament while they were in Egypt.
_______________ add the audio???_______________________________
RE: undergoing ‘tribulations’ is a part of Christianity, since its inception: (from: The Red Moon Rapture – The Biblical Timing of The Rapture
January 27, 2013 By Beginning and End at http://beginningandend.com/the-red-moon-rapture-the-biblical-timing-of-the-rapture/ )
“That the Church was promised “tribulation,” and has endured “tribulation” from the very beginning, is proven in a number of texts (all from the KJV):
Acts 14:22 – “Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
Romans 5:1-3 – “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience…”
I have endured many trials and tribulations, of many types, myself, and I think that through these tribulations, both the strength of my conviction, and my knowledge of God, have been increased. In fact, had it not been for my own trials and tribulations, I dare say that I would not be undertaking this present work. I wish that I didn’t have to have undergone them, and that it were easier, sure; but nobody said it was going to be easy, or that it would be cheap. If it were, we would all be saved. This is simply not the case, unfortunately. There is always a price to be paid; Even Jesus (Yeshua) paid a price in order to ensure an avenue of our salvation, and he was spotless, and sinless. Are we greater than He, that we need not suffer? I think not. That is a doctrine of fools, and the weak, or the wishy-washy, fair-weather ‘Christians’; those who will not be gathered at the Day of the Lord…
Here are a few more graphical citations from the scriptures which buttress the general view regarding the tribulations that we must all face, and also some reasons why we must face them:
(graphic from: Image of the Beast Islamic Connection—Armaggedon News (YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrRwnYKW7dM )
(Above graphics from the video “The Pre-wrath Rapture - The Rapture Puzzle Solved with Matthew 24” by Chris White, on YouTube at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV2txxxdVEQ)
Now, the many Biblical references cited visually show, without doubt, that it cannot be said that we are not meant to experience trials or tribulations. In fact, there is some set number of saints and martyrs which apparently must be killed or beheaded before the Day of the Lord begins, as suggested by Rev 6: 10-11 (see ‘H’, above). Nobody can say that these people didn’t pass through the fires of tribulations prior to the gathering, based upon these explicit references, in the context of the first 6 seals. We are talking about deaths and beheading of the elect; if this is not tribulation, then what is? In fact, the devastation would result in the death of all of the elect, and all living even, if the tribulations were not to be cut short (see D & E, above). Numerous references suggest a strengthening of character attributes,and even the necessity of tribulations to enter into the kingdom of God (see above, throughout, and M). The aforementioned verses and graphics also illustrate that the elect—God’s Chosen, who refuse to worship the Image of the Beast, nor take his number—would remain in the world, through those times of tribulations; those will become eligible to be ‘raptured’, prior to the beginning of the wrath phase (God’s wrath)[ see C, D, E, and L above]. In fact, it appears that remaining true to God, through the trials and tribulations, including being put to death and even being beheaded, is what ‘earns’ some of them their white robes, as a testament to their faith and fidelity to God, through their tribulations (throughout above graphics). This exceeds the tribulations of earlier elect, such as Job, Abraham, and so on; they did not actually have to prove their fidelities to the death…
I have already mentioned the current persecutions and tribulations of the Christians living in our current times; see above and watch my videos, such as The Obamanation: USA's Brutal sponsorship of Christian murder, by-proxy [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lacZ2_ne4pU ], and The Falling Away: (pt 4) False Doctrines of Man ( 'pre-trib' rapture, etc) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNMDtuApxGc and Falling Away: (part 5) The Dangers of the 'Pre-trib' Rapture Doctrine at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC5rVVdPihA . Thus, the body of evidence shows that we, as Christians, or as a part of the Body of Christ (Yeshua), have, do currently, and will undergo and experience trials and tribulations. It is simply a necessary part of the process, and is a true and tested proof of our faith. It may well serve as a vehicle for our salvation; How many folks do you know who had a really rough time, or a really bad experience (e.g., a serious illness or a disease, or accident, or overdose, or near-death event) which brought them to come to know God?
Wrath vs Tribulation, or, Satan’s Wrath vs God’s Wrath
Finally, there is the issue of defining just what is tribulation, or the Tribulation, and the delineation of it from the Wrath of God. This is an important point to disclose, because many pre-trib believers, often called ‘dispensationalists’, hold fast to their belief that they are not destined to undergo any tribulations before the gathering (‘rapture’). If the definition were to specify ‘wrath’ of the Lord, I would agree with them; this is certainly a verified truism. However, what seems to be the sticking point is the definitions. Again, this appears to be a matter of confusion, and/or of deception; understand that the Lord (Yahweh) is not the author of confusion or chaos—that is the purview of the Deceiver.
This confusion should be fairly easily cleared up. One must simply come to an understanding of how the Bible defines and delineates the differences between these terms, and when each of them is associated with particular segments of our timeline depicting the Seals, etc (above). Based upon the relevant scriptures, one can easily come to understand that there are distinct or discrete periods defined at which times each of the wraths occurs; the pre-rapture, or pre-gathering, period consists of the persecution by the Antichrist (Man of Perdition) and his supporters in the one-world government (and religion) which he sets up. Although the chaos and wars, and famines, and plagues of the first few seals are , or could be defined as ‘tribulations’, they are simply the harbingers, or birth pains, of the true, or Great Tribulations which will come to pass. They are worldly signs, per se. The ‘actual’ tribulations that even the elect will experience, or go through, will be more severe, and will be aimed at the Church; those who refuse to worship the Beast, or to take his mark, or his number. Thus, it is the wrath or the persecution of the Antichrist, or, indirectly, Satan’s wrath, because he is the source of the Beast’s power and control. Clearly, it is not until those that must be killed and martyred are sacrificed, and after the gathering of the multitude unto the clouds, with Yeshua, that the Wrath of the Lord—the Day of the Lord—begins. Again, this is ‘post-rapture’, and this generally thought to begin with the 7th seal on the scroll of God’s Wrath; breaking the final seal allows it to begin, or be opened up. Thus, I would agree with the general statement that we are not destined to withstand the wrath of God. However, as I stated, there appears to be a blocking or confusion which infects those holding to their pre-tribulation views; they are confusing Satan’s wrath (seals 4-6) with the wrath of God. I am intentionally not describing this Wrath, because it goes beyond the scope of our present discourse. (It will be much more severe, in general, especially the last few trumpets.Woe, Woe, Woe…). The following graphics (A-E) show verses which identify and distinguish the two wraths; Clearly, they are each distinguishable on at least two dimensions, in addition to their being accomplished at different time periods, along our timeline (above/below); to whom the wrath is directed (the righteous vs the wicked), and who is exalted (Satan vs God).
In summary, this presentation has utilized both general and specific, contextually-correct scriptures, which illustrate and clarify the confusion that ‘pre-tribbers’ might suffer or believe. Clearly, we are not immune from being tried, nor from trials and tribulations, in general. Specifically, we also are not bound for ‘escaping’ the wrath of Satan and the Antichrist during the tribulations, up to the 6th seal, and unto the Gathering. Some will evade or escape persecutions, to be sure, but in a general sense, many will not. A number of us will suffer and die for our convictions. Others will fall, and give in to the pressure, for fear of their mortal lives, or bodies. They will not gain the promised blessings and eternal fellowship with the Lord. However, we should be comforted that through trials, many will enter into the Kingdom, as faithful and obedient members of God’s true Church, gaining all those blessings. The trials that we undergo strengthen our faith, and renew our inward man (see above). Those with the added strength and conviction will not be surprised, and they will be prepared, with sufficient ‘oil’ to light their way through the coming darkness.
The general timeline of the end time period consisting of birth pains and tribulations was set forth, up to and including the Gathering. This will hopefully enable a true picture of the events to come, and may help those who did not clearly understand the events and times in question, to gain a knowledge of the prophecies. Finally, the distinction and definition of the various days of wrath were distinguished between those pertaining to Satan’s persecutions, and that poured out upon the wicked by the Lord. Clearing up the foregoing facets of a false belief system should help any who are, or were, unsure of the soundness of the ‘pre-trib’ doctrine.
I hope that this work will open the eyes of any who have read, or viewed, and that this will aid in your personal evaluation of the truth, as illuminated through the Scriptures. Perhaps it can or will help one or more of you to discern the truth, or decide between the competing doctrines, as to which is the real truth. Beware that any man deceive you, and as always, I urge you to test all things, and hold onto only that which is good. LOOK it UP for yourself, if this has not sufficiently convicted you on this matter. The fact is that there are many false doctrines which ensnare the unwary, and though many may not lead to a direct loss of salvation, they may indirectly lead one down the wide path. Understand that the Deceiver has, and is, purposefully injecting false doctrines through many false prophets; the TV preachers, and even your local pastors, and more. I pray that this exposition is at least a seed for any and all of you who have eyes to see, and/or ears to hear, and that it has opened you to the truth, as I perceive it to be…Amen. May God bless and keep all viewers and/or readers—PLP!
Related Videos/ Sources/References
[**must-watch**--really cogent an inclusive debunking of 'pre-trib']
The Pre-wrath Rapture - The Rapture Puzzle Solved with Matthew 24:
[really good overview of history, prophecy, and end-times]
Revelation: The Bride, The Beast & Babylon (FULL video) by Amazing Facts:
***********************More Scriptural Referents:*************************
The purpose of this article is to show that the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is false. It’s based on taking verses out of context, and upon invalid assumptions. Anyone who simply reads the following two verses in a natural way knows that the rapture is “immediately after the tribulation.”
Revelation 1:3 NIV Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
Matthew 24:29-31 says:
Matthew 24:29-31 ESV "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (30) Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says:
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 ESV (16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (17) Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
Are these two verses speaking about the same event, or two different events? Pre-Tribulation advocates claim that 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 is the rapture, and that Matthew 24:29-31 is the “glorious appearing.” Applying two separate terms to these verses makes you interpret it as two separate events. But look at the similarities. If it’s two separate events, then this event happens twice. The word ‘rapture’ comes from the Latin, and means “caught up.” This word has always meant our being gathered into the clouds when Christ returns. And the word was around long before Darby introduced the pre-tribulation rapture in 1830. As we can see, the rapture happens in both of these verses. God’s people are “caught up” into the clouds, by the angels, at the sound of God’s trumpet. However, since Matthew 24:29 clearly states it happens after the tribulation, pre-tribulation rapture advocates must believe these are two separate events.
In the Gospel of John, Jesus often associates the resurrection with the last day (John 6:39-44, 6:54, 11:24, 12:48). If the rapture is pre-tribulation, then wouldn't the "last day" resurrection also have to be pre-tribulation? If there are two resurrections, are not there also two last days? But how many days can be last? John 12:48 speaks of a judgment for the wicked on the last day. But if this last day judgment is pre-tribulation, would not all the wicked during the time of the tribulation be missed?
If there is a pre-tribulation rapture, then Matthew 24:37, 24:39, 1 Corinthians 15:23, 1 Thessalonians 4:15, and 2 Thessalonians 2:1 would all say that the coming (Parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ occurs before the tribulation. Yet Matthew 24:3, 24:27, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, and 2:9 all show the coming (Parousia) of our Lord to be after the tribulation. Does the coming (Parousia) of our Lord happen twice?
If there is a pre-tribulation rapture, then Matthew 24:43-44, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4, and Revelation 3:3 would say that the thief in the night is before the tribulation. But Revelation 16:15 shows us the thief comes after the sixth bowl of wrath, and before Armageddon. Does the thief in the night come twice?
If there is a pre-tribulation rapture, then 1 Thess. 4:17 and Mat. 24:30 say both events are in the clouds. Also, 1 Thess. 4:16 and Mat. 24:31 show that angles are involved in both events. Plus, 1 Thess. 4:16 and Mat. 24:31 talk about both of these events happing at the sound of the trumpet. Now, turn to 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 to see that those left alive are changed into spiritual bodies at the "last trumpet". So which of these two rapture-like events does 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 refer? Which of the two trumpets are last?
If you believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, you must believe the rapture would have to happen twice, the trumpet blowing is twice, angels in the clouds twice, the resurrection twice, thief in the night twice, and the coming (Parousia) of Christ would all have to happen twice. Does Scripture ever teach that Christ returns twice? (Acts 1:11, Col. 3:4, 1 Thess. 1:10, 5:23, 2 Thess. 2:1, 2:8, 1 Tim. 6:14, 2 Tim. 4:1, 4:8, Titus 2:13, Heb. 9:28, Rev. 22:20)
BELOW from: Amazing Facts.org
Note #4._The parable of the ten virgins was used at this conference to support the pre-trib rapture. But they are just assumptions like we've done below to support the post-trib view in this case:
The five foolish virgins went out to meet the bridegroom (Jesus), they didn't bring extra oil (knowledge of tribulation events) because they believed in the pre-trib, when this didn't happen they were in this period of time and didn't know it, and not knowing that the false Christ comes first (2nd Thes 2:3-4), they are still looking for the rapture, so they fall for the false Christ, their lamp goes out, they won't go into the wedding.
The five wise virgins, who brought extra oil (knowledge of endtime events, false Christ, etc) had the oil needed to keep their lamp burning to endure to the end of the trib- ulation when the bridegroom appears (Matt.24:29-30), and they go into the wedding feast. This is what I believe Jesus was trying to teach with this parable. But it's just an assumption and should not be used to support a doctrine, like the pre-trib supporters have to (for lack of solid scripture) to support their view.